Friday, May 30, 2014

The Bible Refutes Eternal Security


  1. you can turn right around after you are saved, and walk away from God.
    Isn't this the unpardonable sin?.

    1. The issue of blaspheming The Holy Spirit was brought up by Jesus Christ in context of those who were totally opposed to Him and even willing to argue He was casting out demons by means of the top demon, rather than face the possibility they were wrong.

      St. Paul warns of a great falling away and you don't have a falling away from something you were not in in the first place. Jesus gives a picture of judgement of believers, many of whom would not be cast out entirely but some would be cast out.

      Sometimes the walking away is a slow process of slipping away.

      But repentance is always possible until the last.

      The Christian walk isn't a rest after baptism, you are in The Kingdom of Heaven and can relax. That isn't the end of the road, that is the beginning.

      When you set aside presuppositions, framed by men so allergic to anything remotely resembling romanism, that they would close their eyes to Scripture, assuming rome got everything wrong not just some things wrong, then you get the picture.

      Also, the issue of "works" is works that you either are proud of and figure God owes you for, or the ritual works like circumcision, food laws and keeping mosaic holy days and sabbaths as being essential to be in a relationship with God. Paul lists these explicitly, and Galatians is addressed to exactly this, as are some other remarks taken out of context about 'works" and "legalism." those remarks, when you read all chapter surrounding them, are clearly about return to Jewish ritual law, but the moral law is reiterated and Paul warns you can't keep doing some things and inherit The Kingdom of Heaven.

      Thanks in part to the rigid scholasticism of rome, a mentality inherited (along with the filioque) by protestants, things are treated as either or instead of more nuanced.

      Take predestination, there is enough in Scripture for and against that either Scripture contradicts itself (which Jesus says is not the case "The Scripture cannot be broken," though the application was a bit different, that the ritual law - which He fulfilled - would not be done away with until all was fulfilled),


      things are not as simple as either Calvinists or Arminians like to think.

    2. Also, no mainstream Calvinist believes that once you believe you can relax until heaven. Faith that doesn't have works to prove itself is dead. Your reliance on this preposterous strawman fallacy proves that even you are aware that your argument is invalid.

    3. there is nothing preposterous and I have no sense of invalidity of argument. The mainstream Calvinist position is usually the weasling that if you don't have works you weren't saved in the first place

      Jesus depicts in the Parable of the Sower people who must have had some works since they received the gospel word with joy and so forth, and it took time and trouble for them to fall away.

      the arminian and calvinist positions are both well supported by Scripture, so obviously both are right and yet they conflict so.....the reality is more nuanced than either of them realize.

  2. (Ephesians 1:3-14)
    28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    The predestination here is unambiguous. Those who are justified are predestined for it. When interpreting ambiguous passages about a falling away or apostasy, one must do so in a way that does not overturn scripture that is unambiguous.

    If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then His predestination cannot be thwarted. That means anyone who can irrecoverably fall away from the faith was not predestined. If they were not predestined, then according to the scripture above, they were never justified either. The "faith" that is being fallen away from in 1 Timothy 4 cannot therefore be the saving kind.

    1. why do you list Ephesians 1:2-3 but only start at 28? NOTICE THE ENTIRE THING. Paul speaks of we, us, 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

      11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

      12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

      WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST, then he goes on 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

      14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

      YOU ALSO the predestination is regarding some people, the starter batch so to speak, the rest are catch as catch can,

      SECONDLY, your failure is to assume that God's sovereignty means and requires what Calvin (really Augustine overreacting to the heretic Pelagius) says it does.



      and if He pleased to make the whole thing free will He would still be sovereign, if He pleased to do it like you say He would still be sovereign, if He pleased it to be a mix He would still be sovereign,

      you can't put God in a box of limitations because of finite human understanding. THAT would be impugning His sovereignty.

    2. John 15:1,2 Romans 11\

      predestination and election explained with Scriptures showing falling away and being cut out of the Kingdom for not bearing fruit and for bearing bad fruit